From the Archive: Marisa Meltzer Rocks The Middle Way
She's a journalist, memoirist and beauty writer who just released a book about the biggest beauty brand of the last 20 years
I’ve been reading Marisa’s essays and journalism in fashion mags for a decade, and when I saw she had a new book coming out (about Glossier founder Emily Weiss, no less!) I jumped at the chance to talk with her last summer. She was warm and funny, and radiated a serenity that I can only assume comes from having bushwhacked through the ruthless world of media and publishing for many years.
Hi Marisa! Welcome to the Womancake interview. How is your workday going?
It's going well, it's the first day back after a long [Labor Day] weekend, although I worked for most of it. But it's the first day back after the summer.
You are a widely respected journalist, and author of several memoirs, and you’ve also done incredible reporting on all kinds of subjects, especially in the beauty space. Your new book is, “Glossy: The Story of Emily Weiss and the Rise of Glossier”. In the beginning of the book, you wrote that you had a light bulb moment when you were thinking about taking on Emily as a subject. Will you talk a little bit about that?
I was really interested in the beauty world, and the economic power it had, and also the aesthetic power it had [in] shaping beauty standards. And I had followed Emily Weiss from starting Into The Gloss, which was the blog for beauty products, and had interviewed her over the years. And I was wondering if there was a book that was sort of similar about someone like her. And there really wasn't. There were kind of self-help books, like “Lean In” or “Girlboss”. Or there were all of these books about men, or there were books about women, but they were long dead, like Helena Rubinstein. Like someone who had founded a beauty company at [the] turn of the century, or someone whose fame was long in the past. And I started to kind of wonder why there wasn't a story about someone like Emily Weiss, and I think part of it is just that it wasn't this story like “Bad Blood” about Theranos. [Emily’s] story was not one of criminality, but it also wasn't [all about] celebrating [her] life and achievements. I wanted something more in the middle.
In your book I was struck by the fact that everybody who knew her in the beginning seemed to speak about her as if she was this charismatic super-being, right out of the womb. I'm wondering, to what degree do you think Emily's supernova success colored the way that people spoke about her past?
I actually have to say, I don't think that that was the case, because I remember watching “The Hills”, [the] reality show on MTV, and she made a really brief appearance when she wasn't a famous person. She was the intern from New York, and she was on just three episodes. But she made such an impact, she just was like, an apparition from another planet, behaving so differently from the airheads on the [show] that were playing reality TV tropes. Even though she was the same age as those women, she was so cut from a different cloth from them. And this is before she had any other fame. I mean, of course, when someone becomes notorious for whatever reason, maybe they have a stronger impact in your memory. But I do think there was something very individual about her that just seared itself in people's brains and memories.
Another thing that struck me was that she seemed to have these incredible product ideas that were huge sellers right out of the gate. And then there's a moment where she starts to hang out with a lot of “tech bros”, and people in the tech sector. As somebody who's an experienced beauty writer, and presumably an experienced beauty consumer, do you think that shift led to a change in the quality of products that Glossier was releasing?
I'd say the first thing was that the initial products were a group effort. She was very good at hiring people, she hired Alexis Paige, who had been a young star employee at Mac who helped develop some of the products, and who could navigate these Byzantine worlds of cosmetic chemists and labs and all of those things. And then someone like Eva Alt, who was like an intern and a former professional ballerina, who ended up being totally brilliant at their social media. Emily was really good at assembling a team, and she was probably very aligned on what she wanted out of the gate. And then I think it's problems that are somewhat universal with taking venture capital, money and capitalism and just that pressure that you are a startup, you're doing all these rounds of funding, and you're supposed to just scale and scale and scale and grow and grow.
And so part of the problem, I believe, is that Emily got caught up in this idea of like, “We're actually also a tech company!” even though that never really came to fruition. But all of this time and effort was spent on building apps and kind of modeling herself in that way. There were great products that were launched in that time, but I just think it's more of a larger story of how the company suffered, because it was more diffused, and people started leaving, which is sometimes inevitable with a company where a lot of employees are really young. Because suddenly [they] could get hired by a giant beauty conglomerate, to make a whole lot of money. At the beginning [Glossier] was much quirkier. There was a moisturizing mask before there was a cleanser, there was a toner spray before there was a sunscreen. It felt a little more whimsical, and I think people responded to that. Now it’s more conventional with a full foundation line. And that might be what a growing maturing company needs to have, but it also doesn't have that same kind of sparkle as it used to.
And so part of the problem, I believe, is that Emily got caught up in this idea of like, “We're actually also a tech company!” even though that never really came to fruition. But all of this time and effort was spent on building apps and kind of modeling herself in that way. There were great products that were launched in that time, but I just think it's more of a larger story of how the company suffered, because it was more diffused, and people started leaving, which is sometimes inevitable with a company where a lot of employees are really young.
So in writing this book and learning so much about this company, what do you feel it has to say about the future of the beauty industry as a whole?
I think that Glossier is probably a good bellwether for where the beauty industry is going, and also a good case study for the last 15 years or so 10 years in, in beauty, but also in culture and finance and in capitalism, and feminism, and a variety of other things. Glossier has to contend with an oversaturated market right now. Even though beauty [sells] notoriously [well] during economic times of crisis, people are still choosy about which luxury lipsticks they're going to spend money on. I also think that there haven't been very successful beauty IPOs recently, and even acquisitions haven't been what they were a few years ago. So I think they [now] have to contend with reality in a way that you don't have to when you're skyrocketing towards a unicorn valuation. And I think that's the case for many companies, and just, you know, many people: we're all dealing with a lot of reality right now.
Very true! When you look out on the current state of the beauty industry, what are you most concerned about, and what are you most inspired by?
I am inspired by the breadth and range of what can be considered to be professionally beautiful these days. I remember growing up in the 90s, a model that had olive skin or was a person of color, maybe there would be one per issue of a teen magazine. I follow a few different Instagram accounts that post old magazines for teenagers, and the model that was called, “curvy” then is just so offensive and sad. And, you know, growing up with that really affected me, and probably in ways that I'm not even completely aware of. And so, while models are still models, like they're paid to be beautiful and make you want to buy things, they look different than they did, and I think that that's a huge thing, and it makes me feel cautiously optimistic.
Social media always concerns me, especially because it's something that I did not grow up with. And it's hard enough for me to manage as someone who is 46 years old, and it's hard for me to imagine what growing up with it is like, and what being 16 years old with it right now is like. Beauty is so popular on social media, [and] I think that probably some of it can be empowering, educational, fun, but I also worry because you're just watching all of it sort of weighted equally. What poor messages you might be getting or bad advice, like I scroll through enough Tick Tocks where I am getting fed some bad beauty advice, or bad life advice! There's so much insane dating advice on social media that really depresses me.
The theme of our current issue is “guilty pleasure”. Do you have a philosophy on the subject, and any guilty pleasures you'd like to share with us?
Broadly, my philosophy is, “no guilt, only pleasure!” I'm frozen pizza, the Amy's brand. Eating hotdogs that I make myself for lunch or dinner. It's mostly a summer thing. Ordering delivery of something from a bakery, like being too lazy to go and get it.
That’s a big New York thing! Do you have any daily wellness habits or practices that are meaningful to you?
I've worn sunscreen religiously for almost my entire life. And there was a tinted moisturizer from Clinique called, City Block, that was the first beauty product that I bought that wasn't something that my mom had. I always take morning and afternoon walks with my dog, and I find that very relaxing. Sometimes I listen to a podcast while I do it, but sometimes I don't. Other times, I live in a neighborhood where I know a lot of people, and it's just like stopping and saying hi and chatting. It's just a very sort of soothing way to have a social life, especially in a big city. Once a week I teach restorative yoga, which is basically like supervising naps. And I take a lot of yoga, too.
Sounds like a good vibe balance. How does wisdom manifest for you at this stage of life?
I think it's finally being able to have enough experience with something, being able to draw upon it and say, “You know, the last time this happened, I survived!” Like, the last person [I dated], we broke up and it was a good idea. Like the wisdom of, “Maybe I should do that sooner rather than later.”
I think [wisdom is] finally being able to have enough experience with something, being able to draw upon it and say, “You know, the last time this happened, I survived!” Like, the last person [I dated], we broke up and it was a good idea. Like the wisdom of, “Maybe I should do that sooner rather than later.”
Will you share an event from your life that created a distinct “before” and “after”, and what kind of wisdom and hindsight you gained from the after?
Not so long ago, while in the earlier stages of writing this book, I was diagnosed with epilepsy. I had had seizures before, but it had been a really long time, and I had one in New York City and woke up in an ambulance. So I was finally sort of formally diagnosed and put on medicine. And I think that it gives me a little bit of like, just being tired and having brain fog. But also just this commitment to having to take something that I don't love, that I prefer not to, for my own health and safety, is sort of a big deal. There's something a little adolescent that I would have maybe done in earlier years of like, [like] not taking it or like trying to find some other medicine. It wasn't like I had to change my life. It was more about accepting that this was just going to be my new normal, even if I didn't like it.
Thank you for your candor! Will you share anything from your perimenopausal journey?
I don't actually think about it that much, I guess because I still get my period really regularly. I think that I have been feeling like I think my periods are more intense. And I've always been kind of excited to go through menopause just in that I never wanted kids, and I hate having a period. My PMS used to be a little more like, “alone and sad”, and, “everyone hates me!” kind of feelings. And now I find myself [yelling] at a man on the street because he claimed that I was abusing my dog for trying to drag her out of traffic, from trying to eat a chicken bone. I'm usually the kind of person that, my power is that you're not going to see any reaction. Instead I was just like, yelling at him, which was very out of character. So I'm gonna blame [perimenopause].
I can't resist asking you this question, because I know everybody's gonna want to know: what are your top three beauty products right now, Marisa?
I love all of Gucci Westman’s products, and the blush stick is really beautiful. She's spun off a lot of products on the shade “Petal”, which is a universal shade that I think probably looks good on everyone, it’s kind of like a brownish- rose, and neutral. My lips are always so chapped, and I use a lot of Aquafor on them. And then I love perfumes, and I do wear Glossier’s You all the time.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Marisa can be found via her website, and you can buy her new book here.