Stacy London Slays With Wisdom
She's a fashion and media icon, and a midlife women's champion who knows that we are unbeatable even in our darkest hour.
BIG NEWS TODAY: It’s Womancake’s first birthday! I launched the mag last year to share the life stories, personal essays, poetry and art of women over age 40. Since then we’ve gained dedicated readers all around the world. I love reading your comments, emails and suggestions for fantastic women to bring into our universe. Know a woman over 40 who deserves the spotlight? Got a personal essay that you want to share? Email me: womancakemag@gmail.com.
Now let’s get to my interview with the one and only Stacy, who gave so much love and energy in our conversation that I’ve felt full of spicy vigor ever since. Love to hear from you in the comments!
Hi Stacy, and welcome to the Womancake interview! How is your workday going?
My workday would be going better if I hadn't developed a tummy flu overnight. It kind of knocks you out, it makes me not want to do anything except to lie down. So you're catching me on maybe a slightly low energy day. But you know, just generally speaking, I'm excited about 2024. In general, I'm worried about the world, but I'm excited about work in 2024. I think a lot about what has transpired in the last five years, certainly around the discussion of menopause, and certainly around midlife, and around looking more seriously at women's health and female physiology. Recognizing that we have been looking at this through all the wrong lenses, and that medical research and dollars are required.
For people who have female physiology, if you have a uterus and ovaries, however you identify, it is a very different kind of infrastructure than perhaps a body without those things. We have been interpreting medicine and medical care through bodies that do not have those things, which is a very patriarchal lens. That doesn't necessarily mean that you're better off going to a female physician, [because] all physicians have been taught the same medicine, through the patriarchal lens of the male medical body. I'm so heartened that in the last five years, I've seen such a shift, not just in this conversation, menopause was [only] one [part of it].
And I think when we got there, we realized that it's one of many things that really requires investigation and understanding and support. But it also leads into much bigger conversations about female physiology, and health span and longevity, and the ways that we take care of ourselves. So yes, I'm excited because even between now and last year, when I spoke at South by [Southwest] when I was talking about menopause, now I'm seeing that it's [also] about the continuum of female physiological health. You know, we've got puberty and we have pregnancy, but in some ways we at least understand it, [and also] postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, even stillbirths, and miscarriages. That all falls under bodily autonomy, and certainly whether or not you're going to take hormones for menopause, that is about bodily autonomy as well. So while we're fighting some big uphill battles, I do feel that we're making progress as to what the actual outlines of this bigger issue are, and that makes me very, very hopeful.
You know, we've got puberty and we have pregnancy, but in some ways we at least understand it, [and also] postpartum depression, postpartum psychosis, even stillbirths, and miscarriages. That all falls under bodily autonomy, and certainly whether or not you're going to take hormones for menopause, that is about bodily autonomy as well.
You've spoken before about your belief that our generation, Generation X, will hopefully be the last to come into the perimenopausal and menopausal transition with internalized shame about our bodies. I want to ask you, what would you say to a woman of our generation who wants to begin that process of deprogramming all of that shame? Where should she start?
It's a great question. There's two things I think about Gen X, I think we will be the last generation of internalized shame, and we will be the last generation that was uneducated about this transition [and] this phase of life, because we're so hell bent on changing those things. I think that part of it is coming to terms with the fact that that shame is internalized. You are not born with it, that shame about what is happening to you is cultural, and it has been thrust upon you in a way that is not about how you feel about yourself, necessarily.
It's sort of the way that we have been subliminally and implicitly taught to feel about ourselves, which is that you have an expiration date, [and] that perimenopause or no longer being able to have biological children is somehow your biological use, [and it’s now] done. I know women who didn't get going until way after 50 and [found] the love of their life, the career of their dreams. So this idea that we have an expiration date is the one thing that I want people to [understand] is just false advertising on every level. I mean, there's a lot of implicit biological reasons for being [women], but none of those things hold true today. You do not have to have children, or even if you wanted them, when you no longer are able to have them [you don’t have to] take on this shame that is so intertwined with the idea of women aging. Because it's based in socio- biological truths, culturally, that no longer exists for us. We're using an old set of values to talk about who we are today.
I had such a difficult experience with perimenopause. What I didn't understand was that what was happening to me wasn't this kind of midlife crisis. [It’s] a huge hormonal upheaval, and there are bound to be both physical and emotional ramifications. If you're able to kind of get a handle on that, then that knowledge allows you to kind of step away from that shame, and realize, Oh wait, this isn't about me! This is what is happening to me physiologically, [and] I have to take care of myself, body, mind and soul. But that shame that's been handed to me, that's generational. That's cultural. That's societal. Another way to think about it is that, it's not that I have an expiration date. It's that the values that I have held dear, and kind of participated in, they have an expiration date. Time to build your value system around wherever you're at.
I had such a difficult experience with perimenopause. What I didn't understand was that what was happening to me wasn't this kind of midlife crisis. [It’s] a huge hormonal upheaval, and there are bound to be both physical and emotional ramifications. If you're able to kind of get a handle on that, then that knowledge allows you to kind of step away from that shame, and realize, Oh wait, this isn't about me! This is what is happening to me physiologically, [and] I have to take care of myself, body, mind and soul.
So glad you said that! I have this conversation with my girlfriends literally every day right now. We're constantly reminding ourselves that stuff is fading away. Now it's time to onboard something new and magical that we've never experienced before, and that is something actually to look forward to. Now I have a fashion question for you. For a woman whose physical body is going through this transformation, maybe she doesn't feel like herself, she feels uncomfortable. Is there a basic, standard outfit that you would recommend?
No, I don't know that I would recommend a specific outfit. People joke around with me all the time and say, What not to wear was like, ‘We hate the way you look, somebody nominates you, you get to be on the show and wear our pencil skirt!’ We put everybody in [one]. And I'm like, I can't argue, everything was business casual [back then]. One thing I don't do anymore is tell people exactly what they should wear. What I try to do is help them find what they want to wear. When you talk to younger generations [about fashion] now, they're like, What do you mean ‘flattering?’ flattering to whom? There's there's a much different attitude towards the things that we took for granted.
Gen X [was] about wanting to look taller or thinner or leaner, [but] younger generations are so much more body positive. What they're doing with their clothes is expressing themselves. So the first thing I say is, Hey, we don't live in a world anymore where we have to live by the same kind of values and implicit ideas that our mothers may have taught us, [or] our families may have taught us.
Almost every woman in the world that I have ever met suffers from some kind of body dysmorphia. But what is actually happening in the perimenopause stage is that you may gain some weight. [Or] you may feel like you're gaining weight, because your clothes don't fit, your jeans don't fit. But that's usually bodyweight redistribution, right? That is something that happens as you [gain] different kinds of [body] fat during this time. That's what makes you more prone to cardiac disease or diabetes, things like that.
So when we talk about fashion, the first thing I say is you have to get rid of anything that is doing psychological damage to you. Rather than telling you what to wear, I'm going to tell you what to get rid of, [such as] anything that either feels like it's not you anymore. You're never going to go back to that 25-year-old person that you were. Get that stuff out of your closet, give it to your kids, give it to your friends, whatever. It doesn't serve you. What I think is really important is that everybody goes through a style evolution, and at this moment is certainly going to happen. A lot of times, people will say to me, I don't understand, I look exactly the same, but my jeans won't close. It takes a minute to understand what's happening in the body, and also, if you start strength training you may find that you actually go up a size, because you [get] more muscle mass.
So what it really does require is the same thing that I asked every person when thinking about their style: What do you want your style to be? Because I'm guessing your style today is not the style that you had at 25. You've got to take everything in and decide. Is it still that I want to wear body conscious, super-tight clothing? Do I want to wear something more relaxed? How do I feel about high heels? For me, you're probably never gonna see me in a five inch heel, maybe if I stand next to Clinton because you know, there's just too much of a height difference there. But I used to say to people all the time that you can't sacrifice fashion for comfort, but now I'm 55 years old, and I have joint pain and arthritis. And I will totally sacrifice that!
I asked every person when thinking about their style: What do you want your style to be? Because I'm guessing your style today is not the style that you had at 25. You've got to take everything in and decide. Is it still that I want to wear body conscious, super-tight clothing? Do I want to wear something more relaxed? How do I feel about high heels?… I used to say to people all the time that you can't sacrifice fashion for comfort, but now I'm 55 years old, and I have joint pain and arthritis. And I will totally sacrifice that!
The thing is, even in the last 10 years, we've seen sneakers become fashionable. We've seen flats become fashionable, we've seen loafers come back, I mean, all of these things that make it very, very easy for you to find ways to adapt your style to something new, and still feel relevant at the same time. Sometimes it's kind of terrifying to say, Okay, I'm gonna let go and let the Universe do whatever it's doing. You have to have some agency, and I think at this stage of life, that agency comes from making choices. That's an opportunity lost if we don't decide, Does what is in my closet right now express who I am? I'm saying get rid of your whole closet. Nobody wants to do that. It's expensive! But really be discerning with what you put on your body than you were when you were younger. Joy and utility are the two criteria that we really want every item that you put on your body to have.
Thank you, that all rings true! A couple of classic Womancake questions for you now. Our current quarterly theme is, “Life-Changing Books.” Will you share one that changed your life?
“Seven Brief Lessons On Physics” by Carlo Rovelli. He is a physicist, but the way that he explains quantum mechanics and astrophysics is a little bit like poetry. I recommend this book to anybody. I'm a kind of a science nerd. But I really loved it when my dad was dying. It was such an incredible solace. There was something so amazing about understanding the fact that energy can change form, but it can't die.
And another book that I read at that time that I still take out all the time now. It's called, “Being Mortal” by Atul Gawande. He he writes about how we don't take care of the elderly in this country well enough, we don't really understand what it means. This is not the old European way, where we live with our parents, and we keep them when they're old. Halfway through the book, his father gets sick, and he talks a lot about the experience of honoring requests of people as they age, honoring them when they no longer are able to take care of themselves the way that they were before. My relationship to mortality has changed a great deal since losing my father, because I lost him I think way too early, [at] 79, and that seems so young now. It reminded me that I'm next, and I have more days behind me than in front of me. What am I doing with those days? How does that create a different quality of life for me? So it was a very important book about really understanding coping and accepting mortality, but also how to make the most of life.
What is your favorite guilty pleasure treat?
I'm really partial to caramel M&Ms, peanut M&Ms and Lamingtons. I'm a sugar addict, right? If you asked my girlfriend [the same question], her answer would be like, chips and queso. But I would say Lamingtons are my other favorite thing. It's a sponge cake pastry out of Australia that I discovered here. Because I'm gluten-free and dairy-free, I really have to be careful. Lamingtons from Sans Bakery in Long Island City, they deliver all over the country.
I’m also gluten- and dairy-free, so I will get right on that! Do you have any daily wellness practices or habits that are meaningful to you?
I would say strength training is probably the daily practice for me. Moving is the daily practice for me. I still have that pandemic hangover, I got so used to being home, so used to doing work from here, I became very insular. I think if I'm really being honest, I probably had some social anxiety that I was always dealing with before COVID. So just coming back into the real world, that reentry has been a little bit difficult for me. Sometimes I really have to force myself if I have to go to an event or go to a meeting where I have to actually put on real clothes.
But the ritual of moving has become really important to me again, and the more I understand about my own health, my own physiology, the more I recognize the importance [of] it. I am not a journaler or a meditator, I've been through those phases in my life. For me, it's more, you know, a little moving, a little dancing, a little strength training. Definitely the one daily practice that I've had for the last eight years and that I will continue to have for as long as I can is to snuggle my dog at every opportunity. That's my meditation!
Love it. I'm sure your dog does, too. How does wisdom manifest for you at this time in your life?
I feel super fucking wise. I feel like an elder, you know what I mean? I've had a lot of days on the planet. I consider myself to be in possession of a ton of wisdom, which I like to share and impart and learn from other people. I think part of wisdom is wandering curiosity, for sure. It's not just about knowing things. It's about staying open to learning things. That to me is very important at this stage of my life. I don't take anything for granted anymore, so I'm super proud of what I know. I'm super happy to share what I know, and then I'm always looking for ways to expand what I know.
I think part of wisdom is wandering curiosity, for sure. It's not just about knowing things. It's about staying open to learning things. That to me is very important at this stage of my life. I don't take anything for granted anymore, so I'm super proud of what I know. I'm super happy to share what I know, and then I'm always looking for ways to expand what I know.
I think that’s evident in this interview! Will you share a current podcast, movie or TV show, or some piece of culture you're enjoying right now?
I have plenty of guilty pleasures when it comes to television. My girlfriend and I have one episode left of “True Detective: Night Country.” I feel like it got back what it had in the first season, which is a little bit of the supernatural, and it's so riveting. We [also] have one episode left of “Griselda.” I have so many thoughts about it. If you really look hard at the way they've done her face makeup to change her face, Yeah. She looks like Stephen Bower from “Scarface’s” sister. Once you see it, you can't unsee it. So if you're a big Scarface fan like me, I know that movie backwards and forwards, Michelle Pfeiffer was so stunning in it. There's a lot of like Scarface references and of course, it's about a female drug dealer in Miami. I just found it fascinating. The interesting thing is there's all these rap songs where she's mentioned. The idea that she's been in our cultural history as this sort of badass woman for a long time, very active in the 70s and 80s is really interesting.
Any kind of beauty products that you're loving at the moment?
I am obsessed with Biography Long June face oil. They make a couple of different ones, but the Long June for me has been a game changer. It has absolutely changed the surface of my skin, and [also] the Grownup Moisturizer from Caire Beauty. Originally, I think Biography wanted to just make great skincare, and Caire Beauty went a step further to really think about how skin matures and what [is] necessary to create something that is better for skin over 40 I always wear oil and cream. Always. I never wear just one. I think that just keeps me more hydrated, and if your skin can take it, if you're not prone to breakouts, I highly recommend it.
Lastly, I know that you had a company for a while called, State of Menopause. The company is no longer active, but I’m sure that you probably have some opinions about vaginal health products. Are there any that you want to share?
Yeah, I love the company Ina, I think they make an incredible vaginal cleanser. They make an incredible vaginal moisturizer, and they are a clean beauty products. They are absolutely fabulous in terms of everyday vaginal care. I also am very, very fond of The Honey Pot Company. I think they speak to all sorts of things that we're not talking about generally, like bacterial vaginosis and yeast infections and things like that, all things that become much more important to think about as we age. I would say Bonafide does a really incredible vaginal suppository for vaginal moisture and care. It's a great product.
Stacy can be found via her LinkedIn.
This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Happy First Birthday Womancake!!! And what an incredible interview! I just love how she defines "wisdom" and feel such kinship with the quote, "I don't take anything for granted anymore, so I'm super proud of what I know. I'm super happy to share what I know, and then I'm always looking for ways to expand what I know. I think part of wisdom is wandering curiosity, for sure. It's not just about knowing things. It's about staying open to learning things." LOVE.
I love that Stacy refused to give a specific answer to my question about midlife women's fashion! Back in her "What Not to Wear" days she would have jumped on that, but her stellar response in this interview shows that all of us are capable of tremendous growth as we age.