Yi Xue Has No Poker Face (from the Archive)

She's a "graduated" corporate dynamo and burgeoning writer who knows how to be completely herself.

Editor’s Note: Yi Xue’s excellent Substack, An Immigrant’s Journey, is one of my favs. Yi started out as a musician and transitioned to the corporate world, where she climbed the ladder and became extremely successful. She shares deep insights about her personal experience, and provides informative context that is often missing from current dialogue around immigrants in our country. She’s also an elegant writer and great storyteller. In this interview (from last summer) she outlines some of her journey and reveals her definition of wisdom, which I haven’t stopped thinking about!

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Hello Yi, and welcome to the Womancake interview! How is your day going? 

Today is actually not bad. I actually hit some of what we would call a “writer's block” lately, so kind of being on and off and deciding, What should I do? How much should I write? And all of that. But today, it's not bad. I have simultaneously started two projects, both are collaborations with other writers. So yeah, today's not bad, plus, we had a break in the [hot] weather pattern. You know what I'm talking about. 

I do! We are in the same region and I know exactly what you're talking about, things are definitely cooler today. Congrats on starting two new projects, that's a very big deal. People don't understand until they try to do it, and then they figure it out pretty quick. Will you talk about the career that you had before and the one that you have now, and where it is that you would like to go? 

The first quarter of [my life], I was a musician, a classical pianist, formally trained. I performed on stage, I taught, I had my own studio, I had recitals and concerts, and then I kind of switched gears and went and played a totally different keyboard. 

I went into computer science and became an engineer, and even for that career, [I had a] slightly different first half and second half. The first half I was an engineer, an architect, supporting a lot of financial customers. If you do business with some big banks, chances are I've touched their network, either from design or support. Then I went into management, and at first it was just simple people management, and I loved that, because I wanted to become a manager. I wanted to support more people, and help more people. So I really loved that. 

But then that morphed into [becoming] more of a business leader, and it was still good. Unfortunately, the more you spend time in the business side of it, the more you can start to see things that as an engineer, you probably wouldn't be able to see, as you get into the crux of corporate culture. I have to say it was quite disappointing, figuring out, Ah, this is what's behind all those terms that we coined and everybody talked about, [but] it actually means nothing. 

So that was a starting point of questioning myself, Is this what I want to do the rest of my time on Earth? Then pandemic hit, [and] that put a lot of perspectives in place for me. Right after the pandemic ended, [I started asking], Do I want to lose more time doing meaningless travel, meaning with people, conventions and all that? And that's when I said, I need to call it quits. 

Then I was like, Hey, I already changed my career once. I'm actually looking forward to what else I could do! So I did something totally different, which is I started writing. I took my first writing class. I was lucky to have a group of like-minded fellow writers, and Putsata Reang as the instructor. I am also very lucky to have mentors like Sari Botton, with whom I published my first essay. So I consider myself lucky that I have mentors and friends who have been very supportive. Maybe not everybody agrees, but here's what I’ve learned [about] being older, which is, I don't really care what other people think! I care about how I feel and think, and I think this is a new career. This is where I want to put my time in.

I know exactly what you mean about Sari. She actually published my first personal essay. She's an incredible mentor, a legacy editor and a great writer as well. So what do you hope to do next? What's exciting for you on the horizon? 

I have to say that I struggle a little bit with the Substack model. It's a writer's platform, [and] we don't have a lot of access to things like that. But I also hope I get more support as a reader, because I think a writer without a reader is not much of a writer. 

What I want to do is try to get my writing in front of as many people as possible. I turned off the paid option after three months because at this point I want to build my reader base, and I don't want to set any obstacles. Another good thing about being, quote, unquote, “retired” is I don't really need to set up a lot of long-term plans. Everything's short term right now. I want to write. I want to keep writing. I want to write better, and I want to build my reader base. 

Then the second thing, [which] I touched on a little bit earlier, is to do a lot of collaboration projects. Because although I'm not a writer by trade, I have a lot to offer from my background. So I would like to collaborate with people. I think for me, I would like to find myself still being helpful, [knowing] that what I do, what I have to say, other people find helpful, even if it's just one person. So I'm going to start small and totally rebuild.

I'm a big fan of your writing, and we're going to publish your original story this coming Friday, which is a highlight on our calendar this month. 

We just announced that the brand new theme of this quarter is, “Good Men.” Will you share a good man in your upbringing or your life or your world, and what makes him good?

I lost my father when I was 13, and although I have a sister, I don't have any brothers. For a long time I didn't really have a good man as a model, but in my life I've had a lot of [male] friends or mentors. So there is no lack of good men.

Personally, I don't believe that we could categorize a [someone] as a good person or a bad person, but I would just say, if this man can get me something inspiring, it doesn't matter how small it is, I would consider that a good man.

Having said that, one that came to mind was the first professor that I had at University of Nebraska when I first arrived in the United States. He was the one that picked me up from the airport, and then later on, he was my professor, was my advisor, was my tutor. He was also the man that walked me down the aisle at my wedding. So in my book, that's a good man, Professor Ravan. 

We're very used to people saying, “Oh yeah, let me know what you need. I'll help you, whatever I can do.” But he's the total opposite. No promise, no commitment, no anything until he delivers to you. Everything I say, he will remember, he'll take a note, and he'll go find help. He helped me and my family tremendously.

There’s the fiction story I wrote [for Womancake], but fiction is based on non-fiction, you know. There are friends that I made during the years when I was an engineer. They would be very protective. They would watch out for [me]. I was working in a world that's dominated by men, not to mention white men. But I've had white men that served as a protector. I had a boss in the past that, there are many things [about him] that frustrated me, upset me, but I always remember [one time when] he and I were in a meeting. I mentioned, “My husband has been down with some flu. He's running 103 degrees and sweating.” He said, “Go home and take your husband to the ER.” That saved my husband’s life! 

That's how I find good [male] qualities. They may not exist in one single man, but as proof, it's like, Yes, humanity still has hope! 

I hope you're right! Do you have any daily wellness habits or practices that are meaningful to you?

Something very simple we could all do, but I think very few of us do, [is] stretching. Baby, let's do stretching every day! You don't really have to go to the gym and sign up for a class these days, you can find everything on YouTube or lots of apps. You don't need an hour. 10 minutes, five minutes, we can do that, and drink lots of water. 

[Also], I've only learned recently, don't be too serious. Nothing needs to be stressed over. Nothing is worth getting yourself all stressed out. You got a deadline, I get it. But ask yourself, seriously, is anybody gonna die if I miss this? No, not really. So it's okay if you are late for a call, if you're late for a meeting, you're gonna miss a deadline. It's okay. The world's not gonna end. 

Thank you, I needed that reminder! What is your favorite guilty pleasure treat?

Oh, ice cream. Vanilla ice cream is the base, and then I love to throw a lot of things on it. Whipped cream on top. Recently, I've started to learn to make it at home. Lavender ice cream, very dangerous. During the pandemic I got two things I love. One is a coffee bean roaster, so we roast our own coffee beans. And the second thing is this ice cream maker.

Love it so much. How does wisdom manifest for you at this stage of your life?

Aging is a bitch, I usually say, but it can teach us something, which is [that] being wise is very different from being smart, or even intelligent. If you're smart [or] intelligent you can learn a lot of theories. You can read books, you can take a class. Being wise is [when] you truly make the learning part of yourself, it becomes part of your being. 

Aging is a bitch, I usually say, but it can teach us something, which is [that] being wise is very different from being smart, or even intelligent. If you're smart [or] intelligent you can learn a lot of theories. You can read books, you can take a class. Being wise is [when] you truly make the learning part of yourself, it becomes part of your being. 

Wow, I’ve never heard anyone say that, and it feels completely true! Did you absorb anything from your culture growing up about wisdom, and about women and wisdom in particular?

I was born and raised in Shanghai, China, [which] we Chinese like to consider [ourselves] like New Yorkers. I was there until I was 23, when I came here. So, yes, the Chinese culture is very deeply rooted inside of me. There are lots of wisdoms, [but] one thing that kind of makes me cringe a little bit, is when non-Chinese speakers start to quote Chinese Proverbs, [as in] “Here is a Chinese wisdom saying!” Usually I have to scratch my head. Where did you get that? But seriously, that [could] be a potential collaboration in the future with some of the writers, which is for me to dig out some true Chinese wisdom proverbs and then translate them into good English. 

I would read that! 

So there's a lot of that, but what I learned when I was there, or the Chinese culture tried to instill into us [about] wisdoms and virtues don't work in this society. I was writing just this last week something about being humble [vs] self-promotion. According to Chinese wisdom, one should never self-promote, right? You should be humble, belittle yourself. [That] was considered humble. So what I think is, when you say “wisdom", there are very few of them out there that [have] a universal value and validity. I think there's a bigger context, the society, the cultural background. So what's considered a wise thing in one culture, may not be so wise in a different culture. 

But I would say that there's one thing [that is] still very true. A 10,000 mile march starts with that single step, right? Your feet. I think that is so true. You can think about it, complain about it. You say, “I don’t want to do it.” You know what? You never do it until you do it. So just do it.

Especially at this stage of our lives, it's so important to keep that in mind, because life is not over and we still have a ways to go. What is an aspect of your character that you've grown to love and one that you still struggle with?

Actually, it's the same one, and I’ll explain why. My son told me not too long ago, “Mom, [as a] business executive, I think you have a flaw in you that is kind of a killer, which is, you're too obvious. You let what's in your head come right to your face, without any filter.” And you know what? I had been struggling with that ever since he brought that up, because it was very true. But you know what? I'm 59, I have to fall in love with myself. That's the part I also love about myself, which is, you know who I am. So you either love it, [or not]. It won't hurt my feelings. 

You got no poker face! You got no idols! 

I got no poker face. 

Will you share an event from your life that created a distinct “before and after,” and what kind of wisdom and hindsight you gained from the “after?”

One week from today would be my two year anniversary of retirement. Something I would say to anyone who would take my two cents [about it] is, I read something in a commencement speech that Roger Federer [gave], “I would love to use the word ‘graduate’, not ‘retire’.” I love that. So when you graduate from that nine-to-five, you will feel depressed. You will feel deflated because all of sudden, what identified you before, which is a title, a paycheck or relationship, it's not going to be there. It's okay. I think it's  normal to feel that way.

So embrace that, and to say this is normal. This is one of the life phases, and it's a phase you probably will revisit over and over again. I was in that corporate culture. Everything [was] very important, the title, the so-called accomplishments on your CV, on your LinkedIn. But after that I was like, That doesn't say anything about who I am, and now I get to define it.

I love everything you just said so much! Will you share something about your perimenopause or menopause journey that you feel would be helpful to a woman who is currently going through it?

I was told [that] being a woman over 40, especially if you've had pregnancies [and] kids, that having fibroids are very normal. I had a full hysterectomy about three years ago. I have to say I regretted that. I didn't do it because there was something [like] cancer, or there's a danger of that. It [was] just inconvenience, because I had fibroids, and there was heavy bleeding. Plus, the doctor made it sound like, “This is simple. We're going there laparoscopically, and it's done.” I regretted that, so [what] I want to tell them out there is, it's your body. Don't let anyone talk you into it. Do your researchbefore you decide to do that.

I found a lot of my friends close to my age had [a hysterectomy], and I asked them, and almost none were medically necessary. So it really makes me just want to tell my girlfriends out there, whether I know you or not, it's your body. Think twice and sit with it before you make a decision. 

I will [also] tell people [that] the doctor was a male doctor. He was very, very surprised when I said, “What do you mean, [I should have a hysterectomy?] He goes, “You told me you didn't want to have any kids, right?” Yeah, but that’s not the same as I can't have any kids. Being a woman, that's very different. So I just want people to think about that. Are those two phrases different to you? If they're different, then you need to think.

I've never thought about it that way before, but it makes complete sense. Thanks for your honesty, it means everything to women who are struggling with decisions like that one. Okay, I'll pivot a little bit. Do you have a favorite power song that we can add to our playlist?

Because I'm classically trained, my musical world is all classical music. When I need music, I usually don't need music to pump me up, because I'm pumped. I need music to calm me down and make me emotionally feel fulfilled. The song set that I usually turn to is Richard Strauss, the Four Last Songs. [It’s] an old man's wisdom towards the end of his life, having peace with mortality, having peace with life, and I find that very satisfying at the end of a long day.

I think I know the pieces you mean! My parents were classical musicians, so we have that background in common. Lastly, will you share a book, movie, TV show, or, any kind of culture that you're currently enjoying?

When I was working, I seldom watched TV, [but] this past winter, when I would get bored on the treadmill, I'm like, Okay, I need something to keep me on this an hour a day. So I picked up this TV show which supposedly takes place in Seattle, which is “Grey's Anatomy.” And I find that quite interesting, so I've been binge watching that. But lately, also, I've been watching documentaries. There was one about the Blue Zones, why people in the Blue Zones live longer. Mostly I read nonfiction. I was taking a class from UW so they recommend a lot of memoir books, and one of them is written by an instructor that we had, called “Ma and Me,” the mother in [the book] was a Cambodian refugee. It's very good.

Yi can be found via her Substack.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

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